Adult discussion, again

vedder (71300) on 9/20/2010 10:29 AM · Permalink · Report

I escalated a screenshot of the "collectibles" in Mafia II, for exactly this reason.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/20/2010 11:20 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

puts conservative cap on

[says something that would make Republicans turn face red]

Adult. Though we really should make that soft porn / hard porn category: as it may appear to the liberals that games like Witcher simply aren't "adult-enough". Though "hard" seems to be subject to misinterpretation as word in this context. :p

Maybe we should just make the soft porn stuff into a game group instead.

Lain Crowley (6629) on 9/20/2010 4:41 PM · Permalink · Report

I'm still in favor of changing the current "Adult" tag to "Pornography" (hard core, soft core, whatever) and then adding misc tags for Nudity and Explicit Sex. I'd agree with Mafia II being restricted from having screenshot updates show up on the front page, but that shouldn't lump it in with all those PC-98 games. Or maybe it shouldn't even be a tag at all, but just an invisible flag set while adding the game. I can't imagine anyone ever searching through Nudity tagged entries for anything other than the most obvious of reasons.

This would helpfully remove the "Adult" terminology from pornographic content, as has been pointed out by other posters that in other parts of the world an "adult" game would mean something different than sexual situations.

vedder (71300) on 9/20/2010 4:46 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Lain Crowley wrote--]I'm still in favor of changing the current "Adult" tag to "Pornography" (hard core, soft core, whatever) and then adding misc tags for Nudity and Explicit Sex. I'd agree with Mafia II being restricted from having screenshot updates show up on the front page, but that shouldn't lump it in with all those PC-98 games. Or maybe it shouldn't even be a tag at all, but just an invisible flag set while adding the game. I can't imagine anyone ever searching through Nudity tagged entries for anything other than the most obvious of reasons.

This would helpfully remove the "Adult" terminology from pornographic content, as has been pointed out by other posters that in other parts of the world an "adult" game would mean something different than sexual situations. [/Q --end Lain Crowley wrote--]

I think this would be a good solution.

Foxhack (32096) on 9/20/2010 5:57 PM · Permalink · Report

Just because a game contains nudity does not mean it contains pornography.

Lain Crowley (6629) on 9/20/2010 5:58 PM · Permalink · Report

Which is exactly my point.

Foxhack (32096) on 9/20/2010 8:12 PM · Permalink · Report

Then why change "Adult" to "Pornography"? There's no reason for that, games can be adult without tagging them as porn.

Just make sure certain images on this site are -not- viewable by anyone who's not logged in, or under eighteen. Tadah.

Lain Crowley (6629) on 9/20/2010 8:51 PM · Permalink · Report

You're not getting what I'm suggesting. I'll try explaining it again.

Currently the only way to prevent screenshot updates from showing up on the front page with the "Adult" tag. However "adult" is a vague term. I am suggesting that "Adult" be changed to "Pornographic" (because moby does have a whole lot of games which are pornographic) and that one or two new tags be added on top of that: Nudity and Explicit Sex. The two new tags would also prevent screenshots from appearing on the front page, and they would be used for games which aren't pornographic.

Foxhack (32096) on 9/20/2010 9:23 PM · Permalink · Report

Why would you want to tag an entire game like that, though?

It would be far better in the long run to stop specific screenshots from showing up in the front page by tagging them instead of the entire game. That way we can have screenshots from a mature game that don't show any nudity, while keeping the ones that do off the front page.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/21/2010 6:16 AM · Permalink · Report

Actually to a certain degree, both of you are correct.

Building with a gazillion rooms where all the directions are misplaced.

Rola (8478) on 9/21/2010 5:46 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

I'm all for it - and not just because of this screenshot issue. Just like film industry and - surprise! - gaming industry we need some sort of rating that has grades. A mere boobie might not be as offensive as "tentacle porn". So it's unwise to throw them into one bag.

Nudity - a boobie or two. Preferably shapely and sizeable ones.
Explicit sex - we can't argue: they're doing it. Whether it's a plot device or not.
Pornography - anime doll glued up in unidentified goo and raped by tentacles, yeah!... err... I mean: how disgusting!

:D

It's like PG-13, NC-17 and XXX. A mere boobie doesn't warrant XXX.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/21/2010 6:18 AM · Permalink · Report

Bingo.

Trash what I said about soft/hard and remember this category instead for future reference.

vedder (71300) on 9/21/2010 7:42 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Rola wrote--]I'm all for it - and not just because of this screenshot issue. Just like film industry and - surprise! - gaming industry we need some sort of rating that has grades. A mere boobie might not be as offensive as "tentacle porn". So it's unwise to throw them into one bag.

Nudity - a boobie or two. Preferably shapely and sizeable ones.
Explicit sex - we can't argue: they're doing it. Whether it's a plot device or not.
Pornography - anime doll glued up in unidentified goo and raped by tentacles, yeah!... err... I mean: how disgusting!

:D

It's like PG-13, NC-17 and XXX. A mere boobie doesn't warrant XXX. [/Q --end Rola wrote--]

I'll include it in my genre overhaul proposal.

Игги Друге (46653) on 9/27/2010 3:16 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Foxhack wrote--]Then why change "Adult" to "Pornography"? There's no reason for that, games can be adult without tagging them as porn. [/Q --end Foxhack wrote--] Because the current use of adult is to cover pornography and, to a smaller extent, nudity. There are some "adult" games, but they're not common enough or clearly defined in order to have a genre of their own.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/20/2010 8:11 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Foxhack wrote--]Just because a game contains nudity does not mean it contains pornography. [/Q --end Foxhack wrote--] Tell that to the Association of Uptight Conservative Families For Pornographic Content Who Are Still Apologizing For Their Ability To Breed (UCFFPCWASAFTATB).

But it does mean that it contains pornographic material.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/20/2010 8:08 PM · Permalink · Report

I've never done this before in my life so I'd like to mark this is as one of the stuff I should never repeat again in my life:

20,000th POST!

Signed, Got No Life Representative.

The Fabulous King (1332) on 9/21/2010 5:52 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

chirinea (47472) on 9/21/2010 1:55 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Bhatara Dewa Indra I wrote--]I've never done this before in my life so I'd like to mark this is as one of the stuff I should never repeat again in my life:

20,000th POST!

Signed, Got No Life Representative. [/Q --end Bhatara Dewa Indra I wrote--]For a moment I thought you were talking about your personal messages posted. THAT would be a got no life certificate! =P

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 9/21/2010 7:51 AM · Permalink · Report

I'm against Pornography tag and any other Soft- and hardcore differentiations, because in too many cases it's impossible to draw the line. Heck, in many cases it's impossible to draw the line between Nudity and No Nudity.

According to current terminology, Mafia II, Dreamweb, and Indigo Prophecy should be tagged Adult.

If that's inappropriate, then Adult should also be removed from Witcher.

Sure, it's a pity those games will become "invisible" and be dumped with PC-98 porn. But Sciere told me clearly than Adult tag will not be removed from Witcher. Therefore, we should add it to those other games with nudity and sex.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/21/2010 8:11 AM · Permalink · Report

Yay!

The conservatives win (again)!

Patrick Bregger (305122) on 9/21/2010 4:17 PM · Permalink · Report

Ultima VII.

MZ per X (3017) on 9/21/2010 9:48 AM · Permalink · Report

Please let's not confuse the two separate problems that lie in here:

1) We need a way to not link to boobie screen shots from the front page.

For this problem, Foxhack's solution of screen shot tagging seems ideal to me.

2) We are a sophisticated game database and should be able to somehow mark games as adult for people to search for.

Here, the first question is whether we need something beside the official ratings (USK, PEGI, etc.) we already have in the database. I'd say yes, cause there's many adult games without official rating. Second question is what exactly we need. Rola and Lain Crowley made good suggestions.

Current state is that all these problems are crammed into one Adult tag which is too simple a solution. I think we all agree on that.

chirinea (47472) on 9/21/2010 1:51 PM · Permalink · Report

The problem has always been showing NSFW screenshots at front page. Wanna go conservative all the way? Start using the rating systems to select which games do or do not show at the front page. All games rated ERSB "Mature" or PEGI "18" get banned from the front page, for instance.

Of course, the main problem with it would be having the rating systems added to those games, or else we couldn't be safe. The über-conservative solution would be ban every game without a rating from the front page.

Patrick Bregger (305122) on 9/21/2010 4:19 PM · Permalink · Report

Ban every game without "educational" genre from the front page.

Foxhack (32096) on 9/21/2010 5:09 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]Ban every game without "educational" genre from the front page. [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--]There's educational games with nudity, too. :p

mobygamer (92) on 9/21/2010 5:14 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Foxhack wrote--] [Q2 --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]Ban every game without "educational" genre from the front page. [/Q2 --end Patrick Bregger wrote--]There's educational games with nudity, too. :p [/Q --end Foxhack wrote--]

Can you recommend a few :P ?

Indra was here (20747) on 9/21/2010 5:46 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]Ban every game without "educational" genre from the front page. [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--] I just noticed something.

Any chance there's an educational + adult - game in the database? Hehe.

[edit] Foxhack beat me to it. Dang pervert. :p

leilei (343) on 9/21/2010 4:29 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start chirinea wrote--]All games rated ERSB "Mature" or PEGI "18" get banned from the front page, for instance. [/Q --end chirinea wrote--]

Not exactly reliable when even some "Everyone" and "Teen" games also have boobies, and in rarer cases, penises

Lain Crowley (6629) on 9/21/2010 5:28 PM · Permalink · Report

Not to mention that about a third of the games that gets added to Moby never had any rating because of their age.

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 9/22/2010 6:45 AM · Permalink · Report

Right. Those Wizardry 8 and Albion examples clearly showed how ridiculous it was to categorize Witcher as adult in the first place.

So what do we do now? We can't let kids see that bare-breasted demon from Wizardry 8, right? So Wizardry 8 must be marked as adult!

Witcher got that adult tag only because of the naked dryad shot, right? So what, dryad is more seductive/nude/dangerous to minors than the succubus in Wizardry 8? If Witcher is adult because of a mythological chick with bare boobs, why isn't Wizardry 8?

So how are we gonna solve this? I'm not letting this go. I will fight until the last drop of my blood until Witcher gets this stupid tag removed. Hasn't enough evidence been already accumulated showing how ridiculous was this decision in the first place?

If this tag is not removed, then all other games with naked breasts must get Adult tag. Otherwise, there is no justice and no logic in what we do here on this site.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/22/2010 7:23 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--]Witcher got that adult tag only because of the naked dryad shot, right? So what, dryad is more seductive/nude/dangerous to minors than the succubus in Wizardry 8? If Witcher is adult because of a mythological chick with bare boobs, why isn't Wizardry 8? [/Q --end חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--] You forgot the other dozen naked boobies in Witcher. Including the werewolf. :p

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 9/22/2010 7:53 AM · Permalink · Report

I actually don't recall much other nudity in Witcher except those dryads. But that's not the point. Nudity is nudity. Either it's Adult, and then every game with nudity should be marked Adult, or it's not necessarily adult, and then it should be removed from Witcher.

We are totally losing face here. Everyone knows and understands that it's stupid and ridiculous to mark Witcher as adult. Yet nobody does anything to change that. Sciere told me he won't remove the dryad screenshot, and Witcher will forever stay adult because of that, unless we change the genre system.

This is bureaucratic and incompatible with the spirit of what we are doing on this site.

This issue should be resolved in a logical and convincing way. Not saying "it's the system's fault". If it's the system's fault, then change the system.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66801) on 9/22/2010 3:31 PM · Permalink · Report

We are totally losing face here.

I think that you may be overstating the case here 8)

Everyone knows and understands that it's stupid and ridiculous to mark Witcher as adult.

I think that most of us do understand the rationale for its marking.

This issue should be resolved in a logical and convincing way.

Certainly; it's been proposed here already to distinguish between "this screenshot should not appear on the front page" and "this game is entirely concerned with adults conducting extremely adult activities".

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 9/22/2010 5:27 PM · Permalink · Report

I think that most of us do understand the rationale for its marking.

Really? So you guys are glad to see than all new information about Witcher will never be displayed on the front page? And that Witcher is grouped together with porn games? And that games like Mafia II or Indigo Prophecy, with ten times more sexual explicit content, for some reason escaped the dreadful Adult tag, while Witcher hasn't?

Is MobyGames about accuracy and consistency? Or is it about randomly assigning meaningless labels just "because we happen to have a nude screenshot on file for this very game"?

So what now, can I submit those Playboy screenshots to Mafia II? Or will such screenshots be rejected now? Why? We accept porn screenshots for porn games. But we won't accept a nude screenshot for Mafia II because Mafia II is not adult... and it's not adult because nobody has submitted nude screenshots for it. But Witcher is adult because it already has such a screenshot...

If I'm the only one here who wants to pull his hair out at the sight of such idiocy, I think we have a big problem.

formercontrib (157454) on 9/22/2010 6:02 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Is MobyGames about accuracy and consistency? Neither...nor - you gave the answer within your last sentence, the main aspect behind Moby isn't accuracy, it isn't consistency, it's also not quantity and forget the phrases about quality... finally it is no more, and no less than .... Idiocy You really didn't recognized this after several years ?? hmmm.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66801) on 9/22/2010 6:47 PM · Permalink · Report

So you guys are glad to see than all new information about Witcher will never be displayed on the front page?

No, but we are glad to not be alienating the site's advertisers with the possibility of frontpage boobies.

And that games like Mafia II or Indigo Prophecy, with ten times more sexual explicit content, for some reason escaped the dreadful Adult tag, while Witcher hasn't?

I figure between the actual content AND the screenshot we can't maintain a kind of plausible deniability; if those games had the full extent of their adultness documented visually here they might have to get slapped with the same genre tag.

We accept porn screenshots for porn games.

Where possible (not always in the cards) I try to be reasonably tasteful in screenshot submission for porn games.

So what now, can I submit those Playboy screenshots to Mafia II? Or will such screenshots be rejected now?

I think that the high and low of such a case is that we could accept the shots and toss Mafia II in the "adult" ghetto also 8)

Mafia II is not adult... and it's not adult because nobody has submitted nude screenshots for it. But Witcher is adult because it already has such a screenshot...

Yes, so you see, we're on the same page 8)

vedder (71300) on 9/22/2010 8:46 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]Mafia II is not adult... and it's not adult because nobody has submitted nude screenshots for it. But Witcher is adult because it already has such a screenshot...

Yes, so you see, we're on the same page 8) [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]

In that case we have to remove all genre tags for games without screenshots. Cause nonesuch genres are visible in the nonexistent screenshots.

vedder (71300) on 9/22/2010 9:12 PM · Permalink · Report

Also didn't we have a featured article about hentai porn parading around on the front page for I don't know about half a year or longer? OH WAIT. It's still there!

I didn't hear any advertisers complaining yet. In fact, as far as I know advertisers love boobies. Or at least they try to put them in 99% of all advertisements.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/23/2010 4:29 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Really, Oleg. Out of all the things you could be riled about, you choose to get riled up about Witcher boobies. Somewhat saw that one coming. :p

[putting pn conservative advocacy cap]

If I had it my way, I'd mark every dang game with minor nudity as adult. With or without the screenshots. So thus far, I think we've met half way here. :p

Игги Друге (46653) on 9/27/2010 3:22 PM · Permalink · Report

I'm sure that Witcher is one of the most mature games in the entire database, story-wise. Of course, that doesn't mean that children can't enjoy it as well.

Lain Crowley (6629) on 9/22/2010 9:52 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Well, looks like something's going to have to be decided about this, because Mafia II just had an expected update.

...which probably just caused a furor over on that secret approvers' forum, I'll bet.

Foxhack (32096) on 9/22/2010 9:56 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Um, what?

Edit: Oh! BEWBIES!

Indra was here (20747) on 9/23/2010 4:34 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Lain Crowley wrote--]...which probably just caused a furor over on that secret approvers' forum, I'll bet. [/Q --end Lain Crowley wrote--] Nah. The non-approvers already know the only thing we talk about in the approver forums is tentacle porn. :p

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 9/23/2010 5:07 AM · Permalink · Report

Well, if we can't stop being idiotic and ridiculous, let's at least be consistent.

If Mafia II has a nude screenshot now, it must be marked as Adult. Just like Witcher. Case closed.

All we need now is Sciere putting an Adult tag on it.

Golradir on 9/23/2010 2:35 PM · Permalink · Report

I play Witcher and other Adult games and like the adult content. IMO it adds to the game the more reel the pictures and grafix the better

Grandy02 (673) on 9/23/2010 7:50 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

As I stated in another thread, I fully agree with the points Oleg makes. I'm not opposed to Lain Crowley's idea of just making "Adult" an invisible tag to only prevent certain games from appearing on the homepage. That's the main reason this tag exists, isn't it? Or do you want to offer booby hungry users an easy way to search for their favourite pictures (other than looking for games on a certain Japanese platform)?

Anyway, I just hope we won't go Jimbo's way... ;-)

Simoneer (29) on 9/28/2010 9:05 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

This is a rather big issue. Many Castlevania games (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Succubus#Appearance_Gallery) contain nudity, to an extent. I guess it is ignored because it's so hard to see. But that's the problem...what is "adult" and what is not is so hard to define. There are no real facts on the matter and it comes down to your own subjective views. I think the system needs to be revamped, like others have stated. I don't think the main category should be "pornography", but there should be plenty of categories to choose from; partial nudity, nudity, sex, explicit sex (e.g. when everything is shown), etc. I don't think some boobies, or even full nudity, necessarily classifies something as adult, because it might not be done in a way that is sexual (as is the case with Castlevania's succubus). It all basically comes down to your own morals, really; should a naked human body even be considered inappropriate? Should games with non-sensual nudity be thrown into the same category as games with explicit tentacle rape? There's many questions here. I do think the system needs to be more specific, either way. I am, for example, fine with playing games that merely contains some nudity around siblings or family members, while I wouldn't want to play a game in which you main goal is to make this anime chick orgasm. Only having this vague "adult" tag makes it difficult to know exactly what the game contains.

Ergo, I think we need a system based more on facts; scratching the "adult" tag and replacing it with the categories I mentioned (and perhaps more, or less) would suffice, because it's up to each individual to decide what classifies as "adult". "Pornography" as well, for that matter... Some scream "porn" at the sight of any nudity, while others think naked human bodies should not be such a negative thing. I, for one, think it's sick how something so natural is taboo... But that's a topic for another day!

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 9/28/2010 9:12 AM · Permalink · Report

I don't think some boobies, or even full nudity, necessarily classifies something as adult, because it might not be done in a way that is sexual

My point exactly. I mean, tons of games have scantily clad women. They look sexier, and are meant to look sexier, that any poor dryad from Witcher. The dryad is naked to emphasize her connection to nature.

Plenty of classical statues and paintings display naked people. Are they "adult"?

If the idiotic-beyond-my-comprehension American policy objects nudity on the front page, do something to disallow functioning links, or thumbnails, or something like that. Don't exclude all information about a non-adult game because it happens to have a poor naked dryad!

scratching the "adult" tag and replacing it with the categories I mentioned

As the local specialist in adult games, I assure you that will not be possible. Most adult games defy this categorization. You are playing what is for all purposes "softcore" game, and then - wham! - you see a full-fledged sex scene. How do we define softcore and hardcore, anyway? There are games that show sex but hide genitalia. There are games that show genitalia but have less sex. This is impossible to classify.

Let's just leave the "Adult" tag, whatever it means. I just want it removed from Witcher. I don't want our site to look ridiculous.

Simoneer (29) on 9/28/2010 9:29 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--]As the local specialist in adult games, I assure you that will not be possible. Most adult games defy this categorization. You are playing what is for all purposes "softcore" game, and then - wham! - you see a full-fledged sex scene. How do we define softcore and hardcore, anyway? There are games that show sex but hide genitalia. There are games that show genitalia but have less sex. This is impossible to classify. [/Q --end חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--]

Very good point.

But let's take a look at The Witcher. "Partial nudity" would be accurate, no? Take Mass Effect. "Sex" (as opposed to explicit sex) and "partial nudity" could work, perhaps? Of course, your examples at the end there are indeed quite impossible to truly classify.

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 9/28/2010 9:33 AM · Permalink · Report

But let's take a look at The Witcher. "Partial nudity" would be accurate, no? Take Mass Effect. "Sex" (as opposed to explicit sex) and "partial nudity" could work, perhaps? Of course, your examples at the end there are indeed quite impossible to truly classify.

Exactly. We'll have to play hundreds of games till the very end (because many of them have the most explicit stuff only at the end), and then break our heads over whether tentacle rape is more hardcore than a group rape with humans, whether lesbian sex is more hardcore than heterosexual, whether pictures of giant ejaculating penises qualify or not if there are no woman around, which amount of close-up on genitalia is sufficient, whether implicit blowjob is better than explicit handjob... Let's not even go there. Trust me: this thing is impossible to categorize.

Simoneer (29) on 9/29/2010 4:28 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--]I mean, tons of games have scantily clad women. They look sexier, and are meant to look sexier, that any poor dryad from Witcher. The dryad is naked to emphasize her connection to nature. [/Q --end חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--]

Damn it. I sort of missed this part yesterday, but I also started thinking about something related to it when I woke up this morning. So here's something to support your case, on this point:

Take Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. It might not feature naked women, but unlike The Witcher, it features highly sexualized women; you've got hookers (with whom you may have sex) and you've got strippers. But because there's no full nudity, this is not considered adult. It begs the question of... what the hell is wrong with this world? Seriously? Any non-sexualized (can't stress that part enough) nudity is so much worse than, yeah, that? What twisted kind of morality are we talking about here?

God forbid that your nipples are visible, but go right ahead and do a striptease!

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 9/29/2010 5:17 AM · Permalink · Report

God forbid that your nipples are visible, but go right ahead and do a striptease!

My point exactly. Witcher is adult, and GTA games are not... Ridiculous, much?

vedder (71300) on 9/28/2010 9:20 AM · Permalink · Report

The way I see it "Adult" should either just be used for pornographic games only, or there should be separate tags for at least nudity and explicit sex.

What confuses me the most in this discussion is, why are games that contain nudity shunned from the main page, but games that contain excessive violence or horror are not? What's with the double standards? We want to shield children from seeing harmless nudity, but yet expose them to tonnes of blood and gore and the true horrors mankind is capable of?

What is the motive behind games with the adult tag being shunned from the home page?

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 9/28/2010 9:28 AM · Permalink · Report

The way I see it "Adult" should either just be used for pornographic games only, or there should be separate tags for at least nudity and explicit sex.

As I explained in the previous post: that categorization is impossible. I can give you dozens of examples of games that walk a fine line between the categories you mentioned. There is no sharp distinction between porn and non-porn. Trust me, with all the PC-98 stuff I've been submitting, I know a lot about this. Sure, there are games which are complete and utterly pornographics, but there are plenty of others where it's impossible to draw the line.

What confuses me the most in this discussion is, why are games that contain nudity shunned from the main page, but games that contain excessive violence or horror are not?

Because MobyGames is a bloody American site. Apparently, nipples are considering a much bigger damage to American morality than guns, nukes, and severed body limbs. Go figure.

What is the motive behind games with the adult tag being shunned from the home page?

It started about 2 or 3 years ago, when I submitted a few Illusion games, and - if I recall correctly - Corn Popper was threatened by some legal dudes because of that. He had to enforce a policy of not displaying any nudity on the front page.

vedder (71300) on 9/28/2010 9:49 AM · Permalink · Report

Ok, if it's purely for legal reasons, we can make do with an invisible tag that approvers can add to games or screenshots that aren't front page -safe. It shouldn't interfere with our genre system in that case. Because frankly I don't think "contains nudity" should interfere with our genre system as it has nothing to do with the genre.

Patrick Bregger (305122) on 9/28/2010 3:03 PM · Permalink · Report

Yes, I agree. "Adult" for the porn games Oleg adds and an invisible nudity tag which gets applied to specific screenshots. If a game is marked as adult, no information is shown on the front page. If a game is not marked "adult" but has a nudity screenshot, e.g. The Witcher, everything gets displayed on the front page except screenshots.

This way we don't have to categorize games with squishy standards ("In the fifth level is a penis formed pillar, let's discuss nudity") but only the screenshots itself. Problem solved.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/28/2010 3:37 PM · Permalink · Report

Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote-- [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--] Did you say pillar?

Adult architecture. :p

Simoneer (29) on 9/28/2010 3:44 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Bhatara Dewa Indra I wrote--] Q2 --start Patrick Bregger wrote-- [/Q2 --end Patrick Bregger wrote--] Did you say pillar?

Adult architecture. :p [/Q --end Bhatara Dewa Indra I wrote--]

Oh Lord.

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 9/28/2010 4:12 PM · Permalink · Report

Yes, I agree. "Adult" for the porn games Oleg adds

LOL, that was funny, it's like I'm the only one who adds such games :)

Patrick Bregger (305122) on 9/28/2010 4:53 PM · Permalink · Report

I just couldn't resist :)

Indra was here (20747) on 9/28/2010 6:15 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--]Yes, I agree. "Adult" for the porn games Oleg adds

LOL, that was funny, it's like I'm the only one who adds such games :) [/Q --end חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--] I just add the ones that have tentacles. :p

Eww.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66801) on 9/28/2010 8:52 PM · Permalink · Report

This way we don't have to categorize games with squishy standards ("In the fifth level is a penis formed pillar, let's discuss nudity")

Also for our consideration: still chafing under the "Adult" tag are games (Baby Mama, You Have To Fertilize The Egg) where the player controls a spermatozoa, navigating fallopian tubes. Titillating? I suppose this qualifies as adult due to implied sex in the backstory? (But no more than any work featuring living people, whose parents must once have had sex in order to produce them...)

Игги Друге (46653) on 9/28/2010 2:04 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--]As I explained in the previous post: that categorization is impossible. I can give you dozens of examples of games that walk a fine line between the categories you mentioned. There is no sharp distinction between porn and non-porn. Trust me, with all the PC-98 stuff I've been submitting, I know a lot about this. [/Q --end חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--]

I have played very few pornographic games, for lack of a PC-98 emulator, but the ones I've played have been quite easy to categorise, or at least no more difficult than other games or deciding whether the "adult" is appropriate or not.

Simoneer (29) on 9/28/2010 9:34 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start vedder wrote--] What confuses me the most in this discussion is, why are games that contain nudity shunned from the main page, but games that contain excessive violence or horror are not? What's with the double standards? We want to shield children from seeing harmless nudity, but yet expose them to tonnes of blood and gore and the true horrors mankind is capable of? [/Q --end vedder wrote--]

Thanks for bringing this up, actually. Why are games with any sexuality strictly "adult", while the violence, gore and dread are apparently for everyone?

But yeah, it's like Unicorn said... American site. It makes me sick to my stomach.

formercontrib (157454) on 9/28/2010 9:52 AM · Permalink · Report

It could be so easy!

The system should create it automatically, all games with a MobyRanking of overall <30 out of 100, or 1.5 out of 5 from Moby Users, should automatically receive the Tag:

Adull.

Ah, you guys talking about Adult, so close... ;)===

Parf (7871) on 9/28/2010 10:04 AM · Permalink · Report

While I've always been baffled over why a naked human is more adult than 400 bloody beheadings, I can see it from the point of Corn Popper. People who want to put up ads tend to be of the game persuasion, and since they also live under this illusion that the game they are selling is ok ("it's just a little violence after all"), but adult = porn site, then so be it. I don't doubt for a minute that anyone who wants to find the adult games here will have a proble, with or without the "adult" tag.

As for The Witcher... I don't see how that is adult. But then again... a perfect example of how different the mindset can be in the US vs Europe. The Swedish movie Tillsammans (Together) is rated 11 here in Sweden, but in the US it got rated R. It's got two people arguing in the kitchen as to why one of them is wearing no pants or underwear there, and how gross it is around food. That's it. Go figure. :\

vedder (71300) on 9/28/2010 10:51 AM · Permalink · Report

Same thing with Turks Fruit, for example. Dutch rating 12+. US rating R . Most Dutch youth read the book (in all its graphic detail) in high school (12-18 years old), it's on all the official high school literature lists.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/28/2010 11:35 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Parf wrote--]While I've always been baffled over why a naked human is more adult than 400 bloody beheadings. [/Q --end Parf wrote--] Certain males are rumored to adolescently go berserk when sighting boobies but don't go happy with 400 bloody beheadings. Well, except maybe psychopaths.

It's a conservative thing, shouldn't be hard to understand: create a standard that applies everyone, even to people with minimal IQ and no self-restraint.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/28/2010 11:31 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start vedder wrote--]What confuses me the most in this discussion is, why are games that contain nudity shunned from the main page, but games that contain excessive violence or horror are not? [/Q --end vedder wrote--] It's an American thing. Europe is the other way around. At least Asia is consistent. We shun both. :p

abdalrasheed on 9/29/2010 6:45 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

This is interesting topic, i wish to join this merry discussion, there are few point that seem catchy to me and i want to analyze it. Simon said :

[Q --start Simoneer wrote--] I don't think some boobies, or even full nudity, necessarily classifies something as adult, because it might not be done in a way that is sexual.

[/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]

In this statement, i result simoon state that there are some nudity that not being catogorize as something adult, if there are some not being catogorize as adult there must be also many other nudity catogorize as adult.

Further, he put some definition on how we differs nudity that catogorize as adult or no. Those kind of nudity that not catogorize as adult, is kind of nudity that not "meant"or being done as sexual nudity, another add on my personal comment it also implemented not to arrouse us sexualy (in this term we stuck in relativity, cultural different and standart moral).

[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]

It all basically comes down to your own morals, really; should a naked human body even be considered inappropriate?

[/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]

Interesting. Nudity is something natural. and in other hand also sexual are natural. And how can something that so natural inappropriate? it even the cause that human society exist and still reserve until this very day. We are the result of our parent sexual behavior. That make sexual are something far then unholy, in other word, its holy.

And the restriction in adult contain and pornography are exist, not because the sexual and nudity itself inappropiate and unholy. In my humble oppinion, it not lay on the nudity and sexual, but on when, how and where the material appear.

The world are put in organize order, i know some theory said there are no such thing as order in universe, they said it fundament in something chaotic and unstable. But first i dont belive on such theory, and in other hand if it right (lets pretend) still the universe end up to be order. Right thing on the right place. Also sexual. They are appropiate, and natural, and they have they own place, where is it? in your private chamber with your own lover wich is not your mother, sister, etc or not something that not human, not in public.

[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]

while others think naked human bodies should not be such a negative thing. I, for one, think it's sick how something so natural is taboo... But that's a topic for another day! [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]

Its not the naked human bodies that negative Simon. Its like not the food that inappropiate if someone eat it in the road with they own mouth, its how they eat that inappropiate not the food itself. So the same case with nudity.

[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]Green nipples always did turn me on. Combine it with the dark-green pubes and you got a truly irresistible package for the whole family.

Oh boy. [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]

I quote this on your other thread. Its not showing me that you are have over sexual behavior or something, it show me something natural (except for your interest in green, that u thought it sexy). That we human, are attract, with private part of our counter gender. It is work of art, and indeed its something natural, and beautiful isnt it? If its goes otherwise, then its unnatural, for ex : a man that dont arrouse sexualy when they seen some female bare boobs, they can pretend "they not arrouse" its work of art, they see in different angle,they dont event or fail to associate it with sex. But hey, they can manipulated everybody in this world, but not themself and God. And in this case, you show a good side of yourself, it honesty.

And again, from the comment above Indeed the witcher graphic on nudity, have its sexual attraction. At least to yourself.

For result. I agree. To be more just, consistent, and straight forward. It will be great if game that contain nudity mark as "adult", and game that contain adult material mark as "pornographic game". 18+ with 23+ i dont know, but if the witcher mark as one, other game that contain same manner must be mark too. Why dont mobygame make the first move? it will be something revolutionary and radicaly right. Yeah. Right.

Simoneer (29) on 9/29/2010 7:25 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start abdalrasheed wrote--] And the restriction in adult contain and pornography are exist, not because the sexual and nudity itself inappropiate and unholy. In my humble oppinion, it not lay on the nudity and sexual, but on when, how and where the material appear. [/Q --end abdalrasheed wrote--]

Good point.

[Q --start abdalrasheed wrote--] Its not the naked human bodies that negative Simon. Its like not the food that inappropiate if someone eat it in the road with they own mouth, its how they eat that inappropiate not the food itself. So the same case with nudity. [/Q --end abdalrasheed wrote--]

Again, good point, and I agree. But I'm not saying it shouldn't always be appropriate; I wouldn't even want girls to stop in a city street, drop her pants, bend over and show her ass to me. It's just that any nudity seems frowned upon, which is my point. Except upper male bodies...that's unfair. We also have nipples and everything. What makes this even weirder is that boobies seem TV friendly, at least here in Sweden, as long as you hide the nipples. So it doesn't seem like it's the big squishies themselves that are inappropriate, but the nipples -- which both sexes have! Though ours have no function that I know.

Besides that, boobies are for babies. Quite literally.

Note: I'm not angry about this. I like that girls hide boobies, because for one, I won't have to go around aroused all the time... and two, I probably wouldn't be aroused by them after being exposed to them all the time. So it's fine. It just shouldn't be a big deal if a girl changes her bra in public, is all.

[Q --start abdalrasheed wrote--] [Q2 --start Simoneer wrote--]Green nipples always did turn me on. Combine it with the dark-green pubes and you got a truly irresistible package for the whole family.

Oh boy. [/Q2 --end Simoneer wrote--]

I quote this on your other thread. Its not showing me that you are have over sexual behavior or something, it show me something natural (except for your interest in green, that u thought it sexy). That we human, are attract, with private part of our counter gender. It is work of art, and indeed its something natural, and beautiful isnt it? If its goes otherwise, then its unnatural, for ex : a man that dont arrouse sexualy when they seen some female bare boobs, they can pretend "they not arrouse" its work of art, they see in different angle,they dont event or fail to associate it with sex. But hey, they can manipulated everybody in this world, but not themself and God. And in this case, you show a good side of yourself, it honesty.

And again, from the comment above Indeed the witcher graphic on nudity, have its sexual attraction. At least to yourself. [/Q --end abdalrasheed wrote--]

Haha, you're taking me too seriously. While I did feel attracted to the dryad (not gonna lie), indeed, that topic was made as a joke. :)

You can associate anything with sexuality if you just try, and nothing is truly innocent and just about nothing is void of people's attraction to it. You can feel attracted to a girl within a game with her clothes on, naturally. It's a girl either way. But that said, it doesn't mean the game itself should be considered adult or inappropriate. You can be naked without the intention of attraction, and the dryads are presented as such. But regardless of whether or not they wear clothes, a sexual value can be applied if we choose to. In this way, any game could deserve the tag.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/29/2010 7:48 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Simoneer wrote--][1] Besides that, boobies are for babies. Quite literally.

[2] You can associate anything with sexuality if you just try, and nothing is truly innocent and just about nothing is void of people's attraction to it. [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--] Hey, most of us are over-sized babies and members of the local boobie fan club!
I still find this male instinctual obsession over boobies quite annoying. The universe is more of a pervert than I am...and that's really twisted. :p

[2] Reason why I use MobyDark? It's kinky.

<hr />

Although despite Oleg's objection/obsession/obesity/obelix/hmm, until the system incorporates a more logical sub-genre approach to the porn industry, I'm still for the adult tag staying in Witcher.

For the record, removing or adding the adult tag to Witcher isn't the best solution.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66801) on 9/29/2010 7:57 AM · Permalink · Report

I keep expecting this lady from QFG 4 to enter the conversation: http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/quest-for-glory-iv-shadows-of-darkness/screenshots/gameShotId,139303/

Simoneer (29) on 9/29/2010 8:02 AM · Permalink · Report

Ah, a good mention. If you ask me, more sexuality is present there than in The Witcher, despite her revealing less. That screenshot greatly supports my point; more nudity =/= more sexuality.

Thank you.

Indra was here (20747) on 9/29/2010 8:05 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Adult tag! Adult tag!

Nah. No boobies with nipples, no adult tag. Hmm. Wonders if it is possible to have nipples without boobies. Nipples with boobies? Eww.

My imagination is really starting to disturb me.

[edit] For the record, this thread should be marked as adult. :p

abdalrasheed on 9/29/2010 10:03 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Simoneer wrote--] Again, good point, and I agree. But I'm not saying it shouldn't always be appropriate; I wouldn't even want girls to stop in a city street, drop her pants, bend over and show her ass to me. It's just that any nudity seems frowned upon, which is my point. Except upper male bodies...that's unfair. We also have nipples and everything. What makes this even weirder is that boobies seem TV friendly, at least here in Sweden, as long as you hide the nipples. So it doesn't seem like it's the big squishies themselves that are inappropriate, but the nipples -- which both sexes have! Though ours have no function that I know.

Besides that, boobies are for babies. Quite literally. [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--] If u think your boobs are seriously a private part for female (they can sexualy arrouse by seeing it) like we seeing female boobs, then u shud cover them if u want to be fair. But i think, they dont. I think they attract sexualy on the other part of our body. U should ask female for better answer. [Q --start Simoneer wrote--] I like that girls hide boobies, because for one, I won't have to go around aroused all the time... and two, I probably wouldn't be aroused by them after being exposed to them all the time. [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]

i cannot agree more. I also want to add the privacy and the mystery of sexual is important especialy If we belive that sexual is the peak of love expression, then it must be personal, not just the sexual itself, but also any part of it, like boobs, this and that, and that is our nature, it cant be resist. What ever culture we are in, event in the extreme liberal culture that dont restrict to show the private part, we still got mad if some man stare at our woman private body. And so are our woman if they catch out some pervert staring their boobs, event if they dress half naked, they cant help the feeling for being assault and intimidated. Because they feel its something personal and it preserve only for some-one they thought deserve for it.

For those who feeling otherwise lets said, if they being arrouse if their female being stare at private part or it make them proud, or the female are feel comfy, proud and warm if some stranger stare at their private part when they talk (instead of looking at the eye, they looking straight to her boobs for example), its an exception, there should be exception on everything, there are thing call anomali. But usualy people dont like their private part being watch (they wish random person dont stare at it, so why they dont cover it well instead of inviting them to look at it?) isnt it mean, they dont want to share their private part of their body (share nudity) in public? that is where the standar moral and ethics come from. dont u agree Simon? ;)

Simoneer (29) on 9/29/2010 10:20 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start abdalrasheed wrote--]dont u agree Simon? ;) [/Q --end abdalrasheed wrote--]

Yes, I do. :)

abdalrasheed on 9/29/2010 10:38 AM · Permalink · Report

:)

Zerobrain (3052) on 9/29/2010 2:02 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]This is a rather big issue. ... what is "adult" and what is not is so hard to define. ... Ergo, I think we need a system based more on facts; scratching the "adult" tag and replacing it with the categories I mentioned (and perhaps more, or less) would suffice, because it's up to each individual to decide what classifies as "adult". "Pornography" as well, for that matter... Some scream "porn" at the sight of any nudity, while others think naked human bodies should not be such a negative thing. I, for one, think it's sick how something so natural is taboo... But that's a topic for another day! [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]

Ah, one of these adult content discussions I've been missing lately. It's the same old fuss every time...

What adult should be can be verified easily by taking the most restrictive rating systems into account. That would include violence besides nudity and sexual content too. Actually the guidelines of these rating systems could be applied to any game even if it's not rated in any official way. But if the "adult" tag is used as nipple prevention only, it's quite inaccurate.

I don't see the sense in introducing further adult (sub-)categories as far as the only goal is to prevent games or screenshots from appearing on the front page in consent with legal issues.

So what I'm missing here is some kind of focus. Discussing if boobies are adult content in some weird common sense while throwing in categories for better identification of tentacle porn doesn't lead anywhere IMHO.

Let's break it down to the facts known to me.

There is necessity to ban certain content from the front page due to legal issues!? This is currently accomplished by applying the infamous "adult" tag.
There seems to be demand for adult categorization in a more sophisticated way. The "adult" tag seems to bee quite inappropriate because it's used in the context of nudity only!?

Obviously the "ban from front page"-"adult" tag and adult categorization are two different issues that won't consent.

Parf (7871) on 9/30/2010 2:46 AM · Permalink · Report

Here's an interesting one I thought I'd throw in the ring. None of the God of War games are "adult", even though they all contain tons of topless women as well as sex mini games. Discuss. :p

Игги Друге (46653) on 9/30/2010 10:24 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Parf wrote--]Here's an interesting one I thought I'd throw in the ring. None of the God of War games are "adult", even though they all contain tons of topless women as well as sex mini games. Discuss. :p [/Q --end Parf wrote--] Well, because they contain topless women and sex mini games alongside a lot of juvenile hacking and slashing? Not very mature if you ask me.

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 9/30/2010 10:55 AM · Permalink · Report

Of course God of War games are not adult. Just as Wicther and Mafia II are not adult games.

Adult games are games that were specifically developed with the intent of primarily focusing on sexual content.

God of War has sexual content, sure. But it's not its main priority.

It's like saying Sam and Max is a driving game. Or Blade Runner is a shooter. Or Final Fantasy VII is a real-time strategy game or casino game.

For a more exact analogy: it's like saying Sam & Max is a horror game. Well, it has a house of horrors! Or Phantasmagoria is medieval fantasy. Well, it has one sequence with a demon in it! Or No One Lives Forever is sci-fi. It has a space level. Everyone get the point, no?..

Let's stop arguing about obvious things and do something to get the damn tag removed from Witcher! Do I have to start a petition now or what? Don't everyone see how ridiculous the whole thing is?..

Parf (7871) on 9/30/2010 4:02 PM · Permalink · Report

Just to clarify; I brought them up since if we're splitting hairs about what's adult, I'd say they rank higher than The Witcher. Neither are "adult" games however, that much is obvious. ;)

Alaka (107782) on 9/30/2010 4:24 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--] Let's stop arguing about obvious things and do something to get the damn tag removed from Witcher! Do I have to start a petition now or what? Don't everyone see how ridiculous the whole thing is?.. [/Q --end חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--]

I think the majority agree with you that the way the adult genre tag is used is being abused. The genre system shouldn't be used as the primary way to censor games from the front page. But the reality is, they are inexplicably linked at this moment. As you said, Sciere won't remove the offensive screenshot from The Witcher (good decision IMO), so adult it must stay at this point to keep it from the front page. The only way this is going to change is if there is way to flag adult screenshots, but that would seem to involve background tinkering which we have no control over. So I think the bottom line is, show this thread to someone who can actually fix the problem because in all honestly this is an owner decision/fix and not ours.

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 10/1/2010 5:36 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

But as people pointed out in this thread, we have dozens of games with nude screenshots and even cover art on file which are not marked adult. So it's okay when everyone can see those games on the front page, while Witcher is hidden away? Is there any justice in this?

So what are we gonna do, add "Adult" to every single game with every single bare breast? How are we going to do that? Hunt every game in existence for nudies? Everyone understand it's impossible. Screenshots with bare breasts will stay there, only for an inexplicable reason it's only Witcher that takes the fall for all of them!

So why don't we quit this charade? Witcher is no adult. Remove the bloody tag already!

Simoneer (29) on 10/1/2010 4:11 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Indeed. The Witcher is as adult as a game with a single joke in it is comedy.

...I'm too smart for my own good.

Indra was here (20747) on 10/3/2010 11:16 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]Indeed. The Witcher is as adult as a game with a single joke in it is comedy. [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--] Hmm. Good point. Though it would depend on the joke.

Hey, wait a minute! Adult!!! :p

Alaka (107782) on 10/1/2010 4:49 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--]But as people pointed out in this thread, we have dozens of games with nude screenshots and even cover art on file which are not marked adult. So it's okay when everyone can see those games on the front page, while Witcher is hidden away? Is there any justice in this?

So what are we gonna do, add "Adult" to every single game with every single bare breast? How are we going to do that? Hunt every game in existence for nudies? Everyone understand it's impossible. Screenshots with bare breasts will stay there, only for an inexplicable reason it's only Witcher that takes the fall for all of them!

So why don't we quite this charade? Witcher is no adult. Remove the bloody tag already! [/Q --end חד-קרן·山猫 wrote--]

Just because other games escaped the adult tag at the moment, doesn't automatically mean Witcher is going to get a free pass. The Witcher has what is considered an adult screenshot (and it is known by those who are in charge who consider it an adult screenshot - this is the most important part), therefore it's probably going to keep it's adult tag even though it doesn't deserve it gameplay wise. But once again this is mainly being caused because the genre system is being shoehorned with a censorship policy. Find another way to censor what is considered naughty by those who are in charge and then this problem has a chance of getting resolved.

BTW, did you know games rated by the ESRB with nudity get marked adult too? Even if no naughty screenshots exist and the games in question are obviously not adult in nature. It's not just the Witcher getting unfairly persecuted here.

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 10/1/2010 6:09 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

BTW, did you know games rated by the ESRB with nudity get marked adult too?

Then mark other games with nudity, like Cosmic Fantasy, Mafia II, Dreamweb, etc. with Adult as well.

It's not just the Witcher getting unfairly persecuted here.

It is. We have games with nudity and only Witcher gets the Adult tag. That's unfair. Either remove the tag from Witcher (best solution), or, if we can't do it without getting the site into legal trouble, mark those other games as Adult as well.

Just browse through the Adult genre. There are only real adult games there. And Witcher. Why only Witcher? Why did this one game end up being together with porn games? Why not all the others I mentioned?

As I type, Mafia II with a screenshot of a naked woman is potentially displayed on the front page. If we are so afraid of legal persecutions, why Mafia II is still non-adult? Why is Witcher the only game of this (let's call it dubious) type that gets dumped with porn, not Dreamweb and Indigo Prophecy and Mafia II?

Corn Popper (69001) on 10/1/2010 7:07 PM · Permalink · Report

I already marked adult on all these games days ago.

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 10/2/2010 5:32 AM · Permalink · Report

I already marked adult on all these games days ago.

Oh... I see.

Could you please give us a list of these games? Maybe publish it in the Changelog? Maybe people could check it out and add more, or remove some which they know for sure contain no nudity at all.

Lain Crowley (6629) on 10/2/2010 6:10 AM · Permalink · Report

Also what are the requirements for nudity to be "Adult" nudity? Nipples on women? Does barbie-doll nudity count? What about pubic hair? The Japanese intro for Lunar: Eternal Blue has a healthy dose of pubic hair, and I see that it's not listed as Adult.

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 10/2/2010 6:38 AM · Permalink · Report

The Japanese intro for Lunar: Eternal Blue has a healthy dose of pubic hair, and I see that it's not listed as Adult.

The games I've seen Corn Popper having marked as Adult so far all contain sexual situations. So it's more than just pubic hair or a tiny bit of nudity.

As many people have said in this thread, it's impossible to draw the line in many cases. But if I understand that correctly, Corn Popper wants games with nudity in a sexual context out of the front page. This would include the games he has marked so far, but not Lunar.

The Witcher's dryad is actually a bad example for that. The dryad is simply naked; there is no sex implied in any way. If Witcher only had this dryad, I would vehemently oppose its inclusion as Adult even after having embraced other problematic games under this tag. However, Witcher does have sexual situations and those cards with post-coitus naked women on them, so I think its inclusion is now justified.

Corn Popper (69001) on 10/2/2010 7:06 AM · Permalink · Report

for now, everything that was marked esrb as having nudity I marked as adult

Patrick Bregger (305122) on 10/2/2010 7:11 AM · Permalink · Report

I find it absolutely not acceptable that the genres, which are supposed to represent a game correctly, are abused for this. A separate tag which tracks "frontpage unworthy" games is needed. At once!

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 10/2/2010 7:22 AM · Permalink · Report

I am actually more sad because any information for such great games as Witcher or Indigo Prophecy will not be displayed on front page from now on. I care much less for the Adult tag, which, as two many people have said too many times here, can mean too many things depending on interpretation.

If there is a way to allow these game on the front page, only banning screenshots - I'm all for it. But calling for other tags beside "Adult" is opening a huge can of worms. There will be endless discussions as to what is adult and what is not. There will be never-ending debates as to how much nudity exactly constitutes an adult game.

"Adult" does represent these games correctly, in the sense Corn Popper has pointed out (the rating).

My cause was for dealing with the injustice done to Witcher. Now that other games has shared its fate, justice has been restored. Of course it's not satisfactory, but at least now there is a certain logical pattern here.

Patrick Bregger (305122) on 10/2/2010 8:06 AM · Permalink · Report

The regular usage of the "adult" tag is not that big of a problem, the only reason for endless debate is because it is abused in a way it is not intended for. No one could argue that the current genre description has anything (well, not "anything", but I guess you know what I mean) to do with boobs. The genres are supposed to represent the games correctly, not to use them as censorship tools.

The only suitable way is to mark individual screenshots as "nudity" so they don't show up on the front page. There is no hypothethical mumbo jumbo going on there, everyone can judge a single screenshot. This has to be top priority. There is no reason to ban "Witcher" altogether from the front page, just that one single screenshot.

Unicorn Lynx (181681) on 10/2/2010 8:18 AM · Permalink · Report

There is no reason to ban "Witcher" altogether from the front page, just that one single screenshot.

Agreed. I hope there will be a way in the future for tagging screenshots instead of entire games.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66801) on 10/2/2010 7:50 PM · Permalink · Report

For the time being, if we want nudity-containing games to appear on the front page, we will have to write "featured game" articles about them 8)

Indra was here (20747) on 10/3/2010 11:20 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]For the time being, if we want nudity-containing games to appear on the front page, we will have to write "featured game" articles about them 8) [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] Oooh, you liberals are tricky fellows!

Игги Друге (46653) on 10/6/2010 9:35 AM · Permalink · Report

Are you saying that Shitty Game III is more "frontpage worthy" than Shitty Game With Naked Woman?

Indra was here (20747) on 10/3/2010 11:19 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Corn Popper wrote--]I already marked adult on all these games days ago. [/Q --end Corn Popper wrote--] Muahaha.
Muahahaha.
Muahahahaha!

The conservatives win. Yay!

goes off and downloads stuff not recommended for children