Forums > Suggestions > I don't understand. Why?
Ayumi (118) on 10/26/2023 11:34 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Something tells me I'll get banned for it, but I hope not.
I've investigated and I want to understand why this was done, but first I'll tell you what's going on.
I found out about this site in August 2023 and started researching it. Later, I registered.
I've already written about the "Random" button, but it's okay not such a problem.
But the "Games" or "Game Browser" button is something. On its own, it's perfectly made, but...
WHY when I try to find a game using filters. On page 20, I get the following message:
"Sorry, limit reached. Please modify your search or contribute to the database to unlock unlimited results.".
Yes, of course, I can change 50 results per page, change the date, etc. ON WINDOWS, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!!!
There are 80,386 games on this platform (26.10.2023)! Okay, I can apply filters, set a specific year, genre, but there will be 2000, 3000, 4000 games, etc. at a time when my maximum is 50×20=1000 games.
Okay, it says "Contribute to the database to unlock unlimited results". And I thought: Okay, I have a lot of knowledge about Video Games, so I'm going to start writing them down.
I started adding to the information in two games, Counter-Strike 2 and Unturned. Sent. So, here is the so-called "Pending" system. I look and see the following:
"Contribution Status Pending 2 Alternate Game Titles (494 waiting, up to ~1 year, 5 months) 1 Game Technical Information (1500 waiting, up to ~4 months)"
It's been a day. AND THAT'S WHAT NOW, I HAVE TO WAIT A MONTH AND A YEAR TO JUST HAVE 21 PAGES AVAILABLE, ETC., WHEN SEARCHING FOR GAMES!!!!!!??????? And that's not a fact, since I don't know how much I need to contribute to this site.
- I found out that there is such a system as "MobyPro" (which appeared around August of this year (Alpha version) - Source: Internet Archive), which says that: "Unlimited paging/results across the site"
Which means that, as far as I know, not everything will be available to me.
Ok. What you need to do to get it: "Required contribution rating past year: 5,000". HOW!? 20 YEARS LATER!??
Investigation: I wondered why this was the case, and I looked at the history.
-
When was this feature made (21 pages onwards)? After digging into the Internet Archive, I found the following: https://web.archive.org/web/20221118025654/https://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/ps2/offset,525/so,0a/list-games/ - Here are the games for PlayStation 2 and the 21+ pages. Snapshot for November 18, 2022. Okay, if it wasn't that long ago, what happened.
-
Maybe there is a load on the servers? I know only one way, and that is "Alexa Internet". Since the service is closed, I will use "Internet Archive" again.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160304105149/http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mobygames.com - for March 4, 2016: "Global Rank 34,925".
https://web.archive.org/web/20220116104413/http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mobygames.com - for January 16, 2022: "Global Rank 33,953".
As far as I understand, nothing much has changed. I don't think in 2023, a lot of new users came.
In general, I have the following questions: 1. What is the reason for this, the fact that there are limits? 2. Is it temporary or permanent? 3. How can you "develop" the site by editing/adding games, if everything is checked there for a long time?
P.S. I love this site. Everyone involved has done a great job since 1999 to make the best Video Game Database possible. I can help develop game pages, there are a lot of ideas.
Thank you so much for reading!
Cavalary (11610) on 10/31/2023 7:41 PM · Permalink · Report
The limits were added along with the redesign, in February this year. Don't ask me about the hows and whys, I consider the site a lost cause after that (not because of the limits, but because of the entire concept of the redesign).
As for the amount of time needed for approvals, what's listed is how old the oldest pending submission for that category is, and those are often with problems or very obscure or otherwise making approvers avoid them, so it's a warning that it may take that long, but it'll probably be less. Can still be months though, depending on category, platform and how proper is your submission and the proof added along with it. But there are certain categories and platforms for which the approval process can be quick, a matter of days, at least as long as the submissions themselves are also good.
Ayumi (118) on 11/1/2023 6:58 AM · Permalink · Report
Thank you for your reply! I've already written, 5 edits. I'll be write a lot more over the weekend. For me, it's like random, they check or won't check it, I hope that I get access to MobyPro, just for the sake of having no limits when searching for games.
Plok (251944) on 11/4/2023 10:12 AM · Permalink · Report
All limitations introduced in the past few years were made to make the site work at all because we're a prime target for script-kiddie level scrapers. If you haven't noticed between your sessions of professional complaining on every site you have an account on, my dear Cavalary - even with Cloudflare enabled and pretty generous bandwidth, we can't handle sustained and rapid automated requests by people who are very keen on copying our entire database.
Cavalary (11610) on 11/4/2023 12:52 PM · Permalink · Report
A gradual system going from captchas appearing in case of unusual activity to throttling to temporary IP bans for really slamming the servers with a rate of requests that are obviously automated would have addressed the issue without punishing regular users...
And heh, "every site" meaning precisely two of them, which I felt comfortable using and could support, in terms of both goals and functionality, when I made the accounts, to the point that I even became active on forums, which takes a lot, and which then changed completely in what in my view are very, very bad ways. Yeah, damn right I'll complain.
pinklessence (594) on 11/1/2023 6:57 PM · Permalink · Report
What is the reason for this, the fact that there are limits?
Atari now owns this site and as any company that injects money into another business, I assume they will want to recoup their investments so it's normal to expect that some features may be hidden behind a paywall and I'm sure it will take a while before they find a good compromise between offering access to their vast database and offering features 95% of the people won't need for an extra fee.
How can you "develop" the site by editing/adding games, if everything is checked there for a long time?
I guess you do what you can and hope it's good enough for this place. There are different ways to ensure community-contributed databases are accurate. You can do it like in Wikipedia where your edits are saved ASAP and that can lead to situations where, for example, your favourite artist's page is vandalized and fake information is added to it and that increases the workload because someone has to revert these changes too. Here there is an approval system where somebody else checks if the information you provided is accurate or up to standard. The problem with it is that nobody is paid to do this so just like you volunteer to add your game here, so does someone else need to volunteer to check what you added. Unless Atari plans to add AI approvers or automate some parts of the approval process, I doubt you will see a difference in the time it takes to check some submissions because it will depend on when someone else gets to what you added.
Ayumi (118) on 11/2/2023 8:47 AM · Permalink · Report
Thank you very much for your detailed answer! All logical assumptions matter. In general, everything became clear to me. But it's sad to realize that for the sake of a complete search, you have to wait. Well, I'll write it down quietly. Maybe something will change for the better
peterx (514) on 11/7/2023 3:29 PM · Permalink · Report
My problem with the approval rates is that, since Atari now owns the site why can't they HIRE approvers who will do this job as full-time work? Approvers now do this in their free time and for a serious company like Atari, this is a joke... they need to hire at least 1-2 people for this to make the website far more active.
Cavalary (11610) on 11/8/2023 2:05 PM · Permalink · Report
Technically MobyGames has been owned by companies ever since GameFly, which led to that mess, then Blue Flame Labs rescued it from them (admittedly, you can say that the period in question still counted as independent ownership), then there was Antstream, and now Atari. But companies don't buy properties to just sink money into them, and afaik MobyGames barely manages to cover its hosting costs and the owners already cover some costs to allow a couple of programmers to work more on the site, they're not going to pour more into it.
Cavalary (11610) on 11/8/2023 5:07 PM · Permalink · Report
You need knowledgeable, experienced and passionate people for this role, after all it's a vetting process to ensure that the entries are accurate. And probably ten or so, not one.
Now I guess they could sort out the first part by paying some of the existing approvers to turn it into a full time job, but there's also the question of how that would affect the quality of the work, if they'd be required to do it full time.
The fact that they likely don't want to spend on MG remains though.